Thursday, March 10, 2011 1:52 PM Posted by ZAKIR{F}KHURRAM Labels: Pakistan Aircraft
JF-17 model::Awesome information about JF-17 thunder in photo
Chief of Air Staff Pakistan Air Force Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood Ahmed on Tuesday said the PAF would induct 8 JF-17 Thunder aircraft by end of this year. The fighter aircraft is being indigenously assembled with the co-operation of China.
Addressing the launching ceremony for manufacturing of JF-17 Thunder sub-assemblies, marking formal assembling of the fighter aircraft, at Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC), Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood Ahmed said around 60 percent of the frame of the aircraft while up to 80 percent of the avionics to be fitted in the aircraft would be manufactured in the country by 2010.
He said the PAC has all plans to make JF-17 Thunder the world's first weapon system that will be able to carry all types of conventional weapons targeting from air to air, air to ground, air to sea, and to pound from the air. He said this state-of-the-art, multipurpose, light combat aircraft, would be a complete combination of fighter and a weapon system which would also have optional capability of carrying non-conventional weapons.
He said the PAF would induct 150 aircraft in its inventory in the Phase-I in accordance with the already signed agreement with the Chines company, co-operating Pakistan in assembling and manufacturing of the aircraft. "Still we will require some 100 aircraft, as the PAC envisages to take the yearly assembling and manufacturing capability of the aircraft from at present 8 aircraft to 15 then up to 25 by 2011," he said.
Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood Ahmed said: "All JF-17 Thunders will have to be produced in Pakistan as the PAC has achieved the capability of assembling, paint the frame and aircraft, besides conducting flight tests." He said on March 23, (Pakistan Day) the indigenously assembled aircraft would take part in the fly past, a routine feature of Pakistan Day parade of PAF.
He said around 40 to 50 aircraft would have avionics of Chinese origin, while in the next batch these would have indigenously developed avionics. Air Chief Marshal Tanvir said that in the next decade the aircraft would be available for re-export through China and the share in the financial receipts would be paid to Pakistan.
After formal inauguration of the sub-assemblies of the aircraft the Air Chief told media persons that the PAC in the next two years would achieve the capability of making the fighter a 'warfare suite' that would be matching to the needs of most of the countries in the sector. He said the alphabets "J & F" included as title of the aircraft denoting "Joint Fighter" and "we will prove that this Joint Fighter is the best available in the market."
Air Chief Marshal Tanvir thanked the friendly country, China, for extending all co-operation enabling Pakistan to achieve the cherished goal towards manufacturing of a fighter aircraft. He said JF-17 Thunder is a living example of Pak-China friendship and this will help further deepen the bonds existed between both the brotherly and friendly countries.
Terming it a landmark achievement, he said, it is not only a source of pride for Pakistan but also a measure of rare distinction for the country to have joined a selected group of nations having indigenous fighter aircraft production capability.
The project launched in 2000 has already made major strides, including first flight of prototype in August 2003, then in April 2004 and on May 10, 2006 with fully integrated configurations.
Later, in September 20006, the prototype-6 of the aircraft made its maiden flight paving the way for smooth flight testing process ever since. In order to speed up the development progress and facilitate maturity of the aircraft, two J-17 of the small batch production were received in Pakistan on March 21 last. Subsequently, these aircraft made their debut by participating in Pakistan Day Parade on March 23.
Earlier, in his address of welcome, PAC Chairman Air Marshal Khalid Chaudary said PAC has all the capability of achieving the goals with the help and assistance of Chinese engineers and technicians. He said the factory has created employment opportunities for around 5,000 skilful workers and around 80 percent of them are already on job.
The ceremony was attended by Defence Production Division Secretary Lieutenant General Shahid Sidique Timizi (retd), Vice President of Chinese Aircraft Manufacturing Company, Defence Attache of China in Islamabad and a large number senior military officers.
The poster on Pakdef known as Eagle Hannan is a Pakistani engineer who works in Nanjing, China. He speaks both Urdu and Chinese fluently. He is a serious military aviation enthusiast. The city he comes from in China, Nanjing, is also the home of two of the J-10 pilots from the PLAAF that participated in the Zhuhai Air Show, 2010. He stayed at the same hotel as the PAF pilots and had many conversations with them as well as the PLAAF pilots. . Hannan attended all three public holidays and spent all three days with pilots and senior officers. Hannan has managed to collect a large amount of information and media and these have been cleared by senior personnel from the PAF for public release.
What follows is a summary of Eagle Hannan's posts from Pakdef.
Hannan describes the aerobatics display of the JF-17 as brilliant. The JF-17 flew twice every day of the air show. He notes that the weather conditions were very bad and hard to take videos in. He said that the J-10s did not perform particularly well. Hannan comments that in 14 minutes of display there was a single performance of 360 and three half-hearted loops. He observes that the rest of the displays by the J-10 were formation flights. He notes that one of the Sherdil pilots comments about the J-10 pilots in Punjabi that the old men of China cannot fly their own planes.
In comparison, the JF-17s did much better. Hannan describes the Chinese crowd as going “wild” with the Thunder’s repeated tight turns, without a single one off-target from the venue.
In his conversations with the PAF, he has found out the following:
1. JF-17s will not have CFTs (Conformal Fuel Tanks).
2. The present batch of JF-17s has certain non-Chinese subsystems.
3. Air to Air missile tests for both WVR and BVR are complete.
4. PAF is impressed with the performance of SD-10s and confirms that the missile is comparable to the AMRAAM-Cs.
5. An improved SD-10s, designated here as SD-10Bs with improved range, seeker, new motor and better seeker has been tested in China on the FC-1. These missiles are marginally lighter than the first generation and are in the same standard as the best Western BVR AAMs.
The weight of the SD-10Bs still remains slightly greater than the AMRAAM Cs but this is not an issue anymore because the performance is equal or superior. The missiles displayed in Zhuhai were not the new generation SD-10Bs but the earlier model.
PAF order for the SD-10Bs will be fulfilled before PLAAF. Previous models will be upgraded to the new SD-10B standard. [Author’s note: this may suggest that PAF have provided critical input for the SD-10Bs]
6. PAF will standardize to this SD-10Bs. First 50 will have PL-9Cs as standard WVR missiles.
7. A new radar will possibly be used in the Block II JF-17s and the first block will be upgraded. These are likely to be AESA radars with a swash-plate, similar to the Gripen NG.
8. JF-17 radars are designed to be fully multirole.
9. Various new guided munitions are being tested in China. These include SDBs (Small Diameter Bombs) ideal for the light fighter class.
10. PAF’s second squadron of JF-17s is almost ready and flight trials are earmarked for early next year.
11. China is confirmed (yet again and without any doubt whatsoever) to buy the FC-1s. Consequently, production is being expanded in Pakistan’s production facilities, Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC), to meet the demand. These facilities are located in Kamra.
12. Close cooperation on the J-10B is taking place. The level of cooperation has been significantly expanded since 2009. The size of the cooperation is described as literally a small city-like facility to accommodate PAF and Pakistani civilian engineers. Hannan confirmed that civilian engineers from PAC are also part of the cooperation in China.
13. The J-10B will have Chinese radar and western subsystems will allow it to be integrated with Erieye and Chinese AWACS. This is not an assumption and Eagle Hannan, who is a telecom engineer himself, confirms that this is not a technical problem and reconfirms from PAF. There is no problem as long as the protocol messages and handshake procedures are known. He found out that PAF has a solution in terms of the middleware.
14. The middleware will not only be via a C4I but also direct communication middleware. Some of these are being developed in-house and some are being imported.
15. Whether JF-17s can data link with Erieye has not been confirmed due to diplomatic/political reasons. However, Hannan notes that from his discussions, it is implicitly obvious that they definitely can.
16. IFR (In-Flight Refueling) will be installed in later batches. These will be fixed IFRs and not retractable. [Author’s note: radar signature and aerodynamics penalty paid for simplicity of construction, cost and maintenance]. The JF-17s were designed from the ground-up to have IFRs installed.
17. Next block of JF-17s will have IRST (Infra-Red Search & Track) similar to those installed on the J-10B.
18. Pakistani ALCM Raad and H2/H4 ASM will be integrated and was a major reason why Pakistan has chosen to go with Chinese radars for Block 2 JF-17s.
19. Advanced composites have been tested for use on the Block 2 JF-17s. Present JF-17s also use some composites. J-10B/FC-20 is designed from inception from new advanced composites. FC-20s in PAF service will form the top tier in the PAF (above the F-16 Block 52+).
20. PAF denied any collaboration in Chinese 5th generation fighter program as this is a capability they are not familiar with. PAF senior officials stated that:
We cannot help develop a capability we don’t know. Like we don’t know what kind of sensor suite is in F-22 other than what we find from open-source. Such capability/requirement generation is not Air Force job but such technology information is brought in by other means [Hannan notes: espionage or intelligence I think this is what he meant]. We all know F-22 is stealth but what else it can do is what we don’t know. JF-17s are developed because we knew what we wanted from a 4th generation fighter as we already had an experience with capability, either by existing systems or by our collaboration with other air forces. Even US Air force only comes to know new capabilities when it’s presented to it. Chinese on the other hand, have the means to bring such information and develop on such information and PAF does not. We'll see what they bring up.
The final six F-16 fighter jets arrived in Pakistan from the United States on Monday, the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) said. Pakistan signed a contract with the U.S. administration in 2005- 06 for the acquisition of 18 F-16 C/D Block 52 aircraft and the latest arrival marked the complete handover of all 18 planes, the PAF said. The PAF said the aircraft arrived at PAF Base Shahbaz in the city of Jacobabad in southern Sindh province. The F-16 C/D Block 52 aircraft is a high-tech fighter jet equipped with state-of-the-art avionics suite and latest weapons with Night Precision Attack capability, a PAF statement said. These aircraft are part of the bid by PAF to modernize and enhance its air defense capabilities. The PAF chief and the U.S. ambassador to Pakistan were present on the arrival of the aircraft. In the late 1980s, Pakistan struck a deal with the U.S. for import of F-16 jets, but Washington blocked the sale in 1990 as a sanction against Pakistan's nuclear weapons program. The revived sale came after Pakistan joined the U.S-led coalition in the wake of the Sept. 11, 2001 terror attacks on the U.S. The F-16s are built by Lockheed Martin and one of the world's most successful fighter aircraft. The first batch of three aircraft arrived in Pakistan in May, the second three in October and third group of six aircraft were delivered last month.
ISLAMABAD: US and Pakistani officials added another chapter in the partnership between the two countries with the delivery of five new F-16 aircraft to the Pakistan government. The aircraft were inducted into the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) in a ceremony at the Shahbaz Air Base near Jacobabad, on Monday.
“The induction into the PAF of five more advanced F-16, Block 52 aircraft represents the near completion of your Block-52 squadron,” said US Ambassador to Pakistan Cameron P Munter. Chief of air Staff Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman said, “Pakistan and the US are friends and partners and both countries have benefited from each other.” All 18 fighter aircraft will be delivered by January 2012. staff report
Kayani, Petraeus discuss security
ISLAMABAD: NATO commander General David Petraeus visited Pakistan on Monday to meet with Chief of Army Staff General Ashfaq Kayani. They discussed various topics of mutual interest and ways to improve regional security. This was Petraeus’ fourth visit to Pakistan as the NATO ISAF commander. staff report
FL-3000N "Flying Leopard" RAM, Multiple (Chaffs/Defensive) Rocket Launcher, and Type 730 CIWS installed.







Which Fighter Plane is the No:1 in the Indian Subcontinent in the BVR(Beyond Visual Range) arena?
Official Specs says Zhuk-ME on board Mig-29K & Mig-29SMT upgrade has a detection range of 120km for a 5m2 target. Hence:
For 20m2, Zhuk-ME detection range is 170km
For 15m2, Zhuk-ME detection range is 158km
For 12.5m2, Zhuk-ME detection range is 151km
For 10m2, Zhuk-ME detection range is 143km
For 8.5m2, Zhuk-ME detection range is 137km
For 3m2, Zhuk-ME detection range is 106km
For 1m2, Zhuk-ME detection range is 80km
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Official Specs says N-011M BARS onboard Su-30MKI has a detection range of 140km for a standard Russian RCS, in this case 5m2. Indian fan boys claim that some N-011m BARS radars variants have a high power output of 7kw(the original one has only 4-5kw), and hence a higher range than the 140km given above. The precise range for this version is not known. Whether this radar is inservice with the Indian Air force is also not known. And even if it is with the IAF, how many 7kw N-011M BARS radar equipped Su-30MKI there are is impossible to determine. Hence under these circumstances, only an official brochure can be taken into account. Official brochure, says ZHUK-MSFE with a 8kw power output, has a range of 180km for a 5m2 target. ZHUK-MSFE is the latest Russian radar, while BARS is several years older. Also BARS output is lesser than Zhuk-MSFE. Hence it's safe to assume 4-5kw BARS variant's(or even the 7kw range) range isn't going to be higher than ZHUK-MSFE.
140km detection range for 5m2 target. Hence:
For 8.5m2, BARS detection range is 160km
For 3m2, BARS detection range is 123km
For 1.5m2, BARS detection range is 104km
For 1m2, BARS detection range is 94km
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Official Specs says KLJ-7 onboard JF-17 has a detection range of 105km for a 5m2 target. However, PAF isn't too fond of his radar eventhough it has the same range as a APG-68(V)9 on F-16block52 & RDY-2 on Mirage-2000-5/-9(both radars according to official specs), & less range than RC-400 radar. Even in its most powerful form(meaning the version with the largest antennae, which the JF-17 cannot house due to its relatively small nose), the RC400 has 20% less range than the RDY radar. RC-400 is the radar which the PAF are planning to equip their second block of JF-17. Why they are dumping a better radar(according to official specs) and going for a lesser ranged one is fueling speculation that KLJ-7's true specs is lower than publicized. In any case, lets see what its ranges are:
105km detection range for 5m2 Target. Hence:
For 20m2, KLJ-7 & APG-68(V)9 detection range is 149km
For 15m2, KLJ-7 & APG-68(V)9 detection range is 138km
For 12.5m2, KLJ-7 & APG-68(V)9 detection range is 132km
For 10m2, KLJ-7 & APG-68(V)9 detection range is 125km
For 8.5m2, KLJ-7 & APG-68(V)9 detection range is 120km
For 3m2, KLJ-7 & APG-68(V)9 detection range is 92km
For 1m2, KLJ-7 & APG-68(V)9 detection range is 70km
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RCS figures are confidential. However unofficially there are some figures available on the internet. They are:
Clean(meaning payload/ammunition not loaded) F-16 after Block 30, which includes block 52 - 1.2m2
Clean Mig-29B & Mig-29SMT - 5m2
Clean Su-30MKI - 10m2 to 15m2
JF-17 without RAM, its RCS would be more than a Clean F-16 block 52 which has RAM & is planform. F-16 block25 & the previous variants, which are planform in construction but without RAM, were said to have an RCS of 3m2-5m2, when clean. JF-17's TWR isn't very high, and adding RAM would mean increasing the weight. So we can expect little or no RAM on JF-17. Also, JF-17 isn't very planform in construction but has DSI and is a smaller aircraft. So lets consider a favorable assumption that the RCS of a clean JF-17 is as low as 2.5m2.
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_versions_article6.html
Su-30MKI's RCS when carrying full 8000kgs AG load is said to be 20m2.
Lets take Su-30MKI's clean RCS as 11.5m2, higher than a standard Su-27, due to canards & the extra seat.
Mig-29K's RCS is officially confirmed to be 4-5 times less than a old Mig-29, due to composites & RAM. So taking an average value between 4 & 5 = 4.5. When the unofficial RCS of 5 is divided by 4.5 we get an RCS of 1.11.
"Considerable increase of flight range is also gained due to increased capacity of drop fuel tanks and in-flight refueling capability (with the possibility to refuel from the aircraft of the same type). Due to special coatings Mig-29K radar reflecting surface is 4-5 times smaller than of basic MiG-29."
JF-17 cannot carry larger payloads. Its load carrying capacity is only 7900lbs or less than 3600kgs. This compared to Su-30MKIs 8000kgs, Mig-29k's 5500kgs, & F-16's 7500kgs.
Empty weight of the aircraft is 14520lbs for JF-17, 19700lbs for F-16 Block 52, 25573 for Mig-29SMT, 28550lbs for Mig-29K & 40565lbs for Su-30MKI.
----
Eventhough Mig-29 can carry less load than a F-16 or Su-30, lets consider a uniform RCS increase for comparison purposes.
Take the RCS of a Air-Air loaded Mig-29SMT as 8.5m2, 3.5m2 more.
Take the RCS of a Air-Air loaded Mig-29K as 5m2, 3.9m2 more.
Take the RCS of a Air-Air loaded F-16 Block 52 as 5m2, 3.8m2 more.
Take the RCS of a Air-Air loaded JF-17 as 5m2, 2.5m2 more.
Take the RCS of a Air-Air loaded Su-30MKI as 15m2, 3.5m2 more.
With these RCS values and the above radar ranges, you can now see which fighters will be detecting their opponent fighters first... and first tracking which almost linearly follows detection.
Mig-29K will detect:
Su-30MKI at 158km
Mig-29SMT at 137km
F-16 Block 52 at 120km
JF-17 at 120km
F-16 Block 52 will detect:
Su-30MKI at 138km
Mig-29SMT at 120km
JF-17 at 105km
Mig-29K at 105km
Su-30MKI will detect:
Mig-29SMT at 160km
F-16 Block 52 at 140km
JF-17 at 140km
Mig-29K at 140km
Mig-29SMT will detect:
Su-30MKI at 158km
F-16 Block 52 at 120km
JF-17 at 120km
Mig-29K at 120km
JF-17 will detect:
Su-30MKI at 138km
Mig-29SMT at 120km
F-16 Block52 at 105km
Mig-29K at 105km
Mig-29K comes out as the clear winner. If provided with a long range BVR weapon which could match its powerful radar, Mig-29K navalised version will come out as the BVR winner.
Su-30MKI follows the Mig-29K Naval Fulcrum.
Mig-29SMT, F-16 Block-52 & JF-17 are tied at third.
----------------
References:
Zhuk-ME (Mig-29 Upgrade & Mig-29K)
Can Track- 10 Targets
Can Simultaneously Engage - 4 Targets
Max Detection for 5 sqm RCS - 120 km
http://www.roe.ru/cataloque/air_craf...aft_99-102.pdf
N-011 BARS (Su-30MKI)
Can Track- 15 Targets
Can Simultaneously Engage - 4 Targets
Max Detection for 5 sqm RCS - 140 km
PICTURES & DOCS/Overscan's guide to Russian Military Avionics.htm
Kopyo-21I
Can Track- 8 Targets
Can Simultaneously Engage - 2 Targets
Max Detection for 5 sqm RCS - 57 km
http://www.roe.ru/cataloque/air_craf...aft_99-102.pdf
Kopyo-M
Can Track- 10 Targets
Can Simultaneously Engage - 2 Targets
Max Detection for 5 sqm RCS - 80 km
http://www.roe.ru/cataloque/air_craf...aft_99-102.pdf
(Mig-21 Bison has Kopyo radar. Some bisons are equipped with Kopyo-21I and some with Kopyo-M.)
Grifo-S
Can Track- 10 Targets
Can Simultaneously Engage - 2 Targets
Max Detection for 5 sqm RCS - 93 km
KLJ-7
Can Track- 10 Targets
Can Simultaneously Engage - 2 Targets
Max Detection for 5 sqm RCS - 105 km
BARS-29 (Same MKI radar but antennae adapted to Mig-29's smaller nose)
Can Track- 15 Targets
Can Simultaneously Engage - 4 Targets
Max Detection for 5 sqm RCS - 120 km
http://img279.imageshack.us/img279/2...s29back2wp.jpg
http://img279.imageshack.us/img279/8...29front9zl.jpg
Irbis-E (Su-35BM)
Can Track - 30 Targets
Can Simultaneously Engage - 8 Targets
Max Detection for 3 sqm RCS - 400 km
Max Detection for 0.01 sqm RCS - 90 km
Irbis / Irbis-E
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewt...start-180.html
http://www.niip.ru/modules/Downloads...006/2006_5.pdf
APG-77 (F-22A)
Max Track for 1 sqm RCS - 200 km
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewt...start-180.html
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewt...-start-30.html
APG-81 (F-35)
Max Track for 1 sqm RCS - 160 km
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewt...start-180.html
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewt...-start-30.html
Captor-M (EF-2000)
Max Track for 5 sqm RCS - 185 km
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewt...-start-30.html
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewt...start-180.html
Zaslon-M (Mig-31)
Max Detection for 10 ~ 15 sqm RCS - 400 km
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewt...start-180.html
RBE-2 (Rafale)
Can Track - 40 Targets
Can Simultaneously Engage - 4 Targets
Max Track for 3 sqm RCS - 100 km
Max Detection for 3 sqm RCS - 130-140 km
Dassault Rafale Avionics
RDY-2 (mirage 2000-5/-9)
Can Track - 24 Targets
Can Simultaneously Engage - 4 Targets
Max Track for 5 sqm RCS - 80 km
RC-400 (smaller radar based on RDY-2)
Can Track - 24 Targets
Can Simultaneously Engage - 4 Targets
Max Track for 5 sqm RCS - 70 km
APG-68 (V)9 (on F-16 Block 52)
Max Track for 5 sqm RCS - 80 km
APG-66(V)2 (on F-16 MLU)
Max Detection for 6 sqm RCS - 74 km
APG-66 Declassified
Chief of Air Staff Pakistan Air Force Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood Ahmed on Tuesday said the PAF would induct 8 JF-17 Thunder aircraft by end of this year. The fighter aircraft is being indigenously assembled with the co-operation of China.
Addressing the launching ceremony for manufacturing of JF-17 Thunder sub-assemblies, marking formal assembling of the fighter aircraft, at Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC), Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood Ahmed said around 60 percent of the frame of the aircraft while up to 80 percent of the avionics to be fitted in the aircraft would be manufactured in the country by 2010.
He said the PAC has all plans to make JF-17 Thunder the world's first weapon system that will be able to carry all types of conventional weapons targeting from air to air, air to ground, air to sea, and to pound from the air. He said this state-of-the-art, multipurpose, light combat aircraft, would be a complete combination of fighter and a weapon system which would also have optional capability of carrying non-conventional weapons.
He said the PAF would induct 150 aircraft in its inventory in the Phase-I in accordance with the already signed agreement with the Chines company, co-operating Pakistan in assembling and manufacturing of the aircraft. "Still we will require some 100 aircraft, as the PAC envisages to take the yearly assembling and manufacturing capability of the aircraft from at present 8 aircraft to 15 then up to 25 by 2011," he said.
Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood Ahmed said: "All JF-17 Thunders will have to be produced in Pakistan as the PAC has achieved the capability of assembling, paint the frame and aircraft, besides conducting flight tests." He said on March 23, (Pakistan Day) the indigenously assembled aircraft would take part in the fly past, a routine feature of Pakistan Day parade of PAF.
He said around 40 to 50 aircraft would have avionics of Chinese origin, while in the next batch these would have indigenously developed avionics. Air Chief Marshal Tanvir said that in the next decade the aircraft would be available for re-export through China and the share in the financial receipts would be paid to Pakistan.
After formal inauguration of the sub-assemblies of the aircraft the Air Chief told media persons that the PAC in the next two years would achieve the capability of making the fighter a 'warfare suite' that would be matching to the needs of most of the countries in the sector. He said the alphabets "J & F" included as title of the aircraft denoting "Joint Fighter" and "we will prove that this Joint Fighter is the best available in the market."
Air Chief Marshal Tanvir thanked the friendly country, China, for extending all co-operation enabling Pakistan to achieve the cherished goal towards manufacturing of a fighter aircraft. He said JF-17 Thunder is a living example of Pak-China friendship and this will help further deepen the bonds existed between both the brotherly and friendly countries.
Terming it a landmark achievement, he said, it is not only a source of pride for Pakistan but also a measure of rare distinction for the country to have joined a selected group of nations having indigenous fighter aircraft production capability.
The project launched in 2000 has already made major strides, including first flight of prototype in August 2003, then in April 2004 and on May 10, 2006 with fully integrated configurations.
Later, in September 20006, the prototype-6 of the aircraft made its maiden flight paving the way for smooth flight testing process ever since. In order to speed up the development progress and facilitate maturity of the aircraft, two J-17 of the small batch production were received in Pakistan on March 21 last. Subsequently, these aircraft made their debut by participating in Pakistan Day Parade on March 23.
Earlier, in his address of welcome, PAC Chairman Air Marshal Khalid Chaudary said PAC has all the capability of achieving the goals with the help and assistance of Chinese engineers and technicians. He said the factory has created employment opportunities for around 5,000 skilful workers and around 80 percent of them are already on job.
The ceremony was attended by Defence Production Division Secretary Lieutenant General Shahid Sidique Timizi (retd), Vice President of Chinese Aircraft Manufacturing Company, Defence Attache of China in Islamabad and a large number senior military officers.
The poster on Pakdef known as Eagle Hannan is a Pakistani engineer who works in Nanjing, China. He speaks both Urdu and Chinese fluently. He is a serious military aviation enthusiast. The city he comes from in China, Nanjing, is also the home of two of the J-10 pilots from the PLAAF that participated in the Zhuhai Air Show, 2010. He stayed at the same hotel as the PAF pilots and had many conversations with them as well as the PLAAF pilots. . Hannan attended all three public holidays and spent all three days with pilots and senior officers. Hannan has managed to collect a large amount of information and media and these have been cleared by senior personnel from the PAF for public release.
What follows is a summary of Eagle Hannan's posts from Pakdef.
Hannan describes the aerobatics display of the JF-17 as brilliant. The JF-17 flew twice every day of the air show. He notes that the weather conditions were very bad and hard to take videos in. He said that the J-10s did not perform particularly well. Hannan comments that in 14 minutes of display there was a single performance of 360 and three half-hearted loops. He observes that the rest of the displays by the J-10 were formation flights. He notes that one of the Sherdil pilots comments about the J-10 pilots in Punjabi that the old men of China cannot fly their own planes.
In comparison, the JF-17s did much better. Hannan describes the Chinese crowd as going “wild” with the Thunder’s repeated tight turns, without a single one off-target from the venue.
In his conversations with the PAF, he has found out the following:
1. JF-17s will not have CFTs (Conformal Fuel Tanks).
2. The present batch of JF-17s has certain non-Chinese subsystems.
3. Air to Air missile tests for both WVR and BVR are complete.
4. PAF is impressed with the performance of SD-10s and confirms that the missile is comparable to the AMRAAM-Cs.
5. An improved SD-10s, designated here as SD-10Bs with improved range, seeker, new motor and better seeker has been tested in China on the FC-1. These missiles are marginally lighter than the first generation and are in the same standard as the best Western BVR AAMs.
The weight of the SD-10Bs still remains slightly greater than the AMRAAM Cs but this is not an issue anymore because the performance is equal or superior. The missiles displayed in Zhuhai were not the new generation SD-10Bs but the earlier model.
PAF order for the SD-10Bs will be fulfilled before PLAAF. Previous models will be upgraded to the new SD-10B standard. [Author’s note: this may suggest that PAF have provided critical input for the SD-10Bs]
6. PAF will standardize to this SD-10Bs. First 50 will have PL-9Cs as standard WVR missiles.
7. A new radar will possibly be used in the Block II JF-17s and the first block will be upgraded. These are likely to be AESA radars with a swash-plate, similar to the Gripen NG.
8. JF-17 radars are designed to be fully multirole.
9. Various new guided munitions are being tested in China. These include SDBs (Small Diameter Bombs) ideal for the light fighter class.
10. PAF’s second squadron of JF-17s is almost ready and flight trials are earmarked for early next year.
11. China is confirmed (yet again and without any doubt whatsoever) to buy the FC-1s. Consequently, production is being expanded in Pakistan’s production facilities, Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC), to meet the demand. These facilities are located in Kamra.
12. Close cooperation on the J-10B is taking place. The level of cooperation has been significantly expanded since 2009. The size of the cooperation is described as literally a small city-like facility to accommodate PAF and Pakistani civilian engineers. Hannan confirmed that civilian engineers from PAC are also part of the cooperation in China.
13. The J-10B will have Chinese radar and western subsystems will allow it to be integrated with Erieye and Chinese AWACS. This is not an assumption and Eagle Hannan, who is a telecom engineer himself, confirms that this is not a technical problem and reconfirms from PAF. There is no problem as long as the protocol messages and handshake procedures are known. He found out that PAF has a solution in terms of the middleware.
14. The middleware will not only be via a C4I but also direct communication middleware. Some of these are being developed in-house and some are being imported.
15. Whether JF-17s can data link with Erieye has not been confirmed due to diplomatic/political reasons. However, Hannan notes that from his discussions, it is implicitly obvious that they definitely can.
16. IFR (In-Flight Refueling) will be installed in later batches. These will be fixed IFRs and not retractable. [Author’s note: radar signature and aerodynamics penalty paid for simplicity of construction, cost and maintenance]. The JF-17s were designed from the ground-up to have IFRs installed.
17. Next block of JF-17s will have IRST (Infra-Red Search & Track) similar to those installed on the J-10B.
18. Pakistani ALCM Raad and H2/H4 ASM will be integrated and was a major reason why Pakistan has chosen to go with Chinese radars for Block 2 JF-17s.
19. Advanced composites have been tested for use on the Block 2 JF-17s. Present JF-17s also use some composites. J-10B/FC-20 is designed from inception from new advanced composites. FC-20s in PAF service will form the top tier in the PAF (above the F-16 Block 52+).
20. PAF denied any collaboration in Chinese 5th generation fighter program as this is a capability they are not familiar with. PAF senior officials stated that:
We cannot help develop a capability we don’t know. Like we don’t know what kind of sensor suite is in F-22 other than what we find from open-source. Such capability/requirement generation is not Air Force job but such technology information is brought in by other means [Hannan notes: espionage or intelligence I think this is what he meant]. We all know F-22 is stealth but what else it can do is what we don’t know. JF-17s are developed because we knew what we wanted from a 4th generation fighter as we already had an experience with capability, either by existing systems or by our collaboration with other air forces. Even US Air force only comes to know new capabilities when it’s presented to it. Chinese on the other hand, have the means to bring such information and develop on such information and PAF does not. We'll see what they bring up.
The final six F-16 fighter jets arrived in Pakistan from the United States on Monday, the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) said. Pakistan signed a contract with the U.S. administration in 2005- 06 for the acquisition of 18 F-16 C/D Block 52 aircraft and the latest arrival marked the complete handover of all 18 planes, the PAF said. The PAF said the aircraft arrived at PAF Base Shahbaz in the city of Jacobabad in southern Sindh province. The F-16 C/D Block 52 aircraft is a high-tech fighter jet equipped with state-of-the-art avionics suite and latest weapons with Night Precision Attack capability, a PAF statement said. These aircraft are part of the bid by PAF to modernize and enhance its air defense capabilities. The PAF chief and the U.S. ambassador to Pakistan were present on the arrival of the aircraft. In the late 1980s, Pakistan struck a deal with the U.S. for import of F-16 jets, but Washington blocked the sale in 1990 as a sanction against Pakistan's nuclear weapons program. The revived sale came after Pakistan joined the U.S-led coalition in the wake of the Sept. 11, 2001 terror attacks on the U.S. The F-16s are built by Lockheed Martin and one of the world's most successful fighter aircraft. The first batch of three aircraft arrived in Pakistan in May, the second three in October and third group of six aircraft were delivered last month.
ISLAMABAD: US and Pakistani officials added another chapter in the partnership between the two countries with the delivery of five new F-16 aircraft to the Pakistan government. The aircraft were inducted into the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) in a ceremony at the Shahbaz Air Base near Jacobabad, on Monday.
“The induction into the PAF of five more advanced F-16, Block 52 aircraft represents the near completion of your Block-52 squadron,” said US Ambassador to Pakistan Cameron P Munter. Chief of air Staff Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman said, “Pakistan and the US are friends and partners and both countries have benefited from each other.” All 18 fighter aircraft will be delivered by January 2012. staff report
Kayani, Petraeus discuss security
ISLAMABAD: NATO commander General David Petraeus visited Pakistan on Monday to meet with Chief of Army Staff General Ashfaq Kayani. They discussed various topics of mutual interest and ways to improve regional security. This was Petraeus’ fourth visit to Pakistan as the NATO ISAF commander. staff report
FL-3000N "Flying Leopard" RAM, Multiple (Chaffs/Defensive) Rocket Launcher, and Type 730 CIWS installed.








Which Fighter Plane is the No:1 in the Indian Subcontinent in the BVR(Beyond Visual Range) arena?
Official Specs says Zhuk-ME on board Mig-29K & Mig-29SMT upgrade has a detection range of 120km for a 5m2 target. Hence:
For 20m2, Zhuk-ME detection range is 170km
For 15m2, Zhuk-ME detection range is 158km
For 12.5m2, Zhuk-ME detection range is 151km
For 10m2, Zhuk-ME detection range is 143km
For 8.5m2, Zhuk-ME detection range is 137km
For 3m2, Zhuk-ME detection range is 106km
For 1m2, Zhuk-ME detection range is 80km
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Official Specs says N-011M BARS onboard Su-30MKI has a detection range of 140km for a standard Russian RCS, in this case 5m2. Indian fan boys claim that some N-011m BARS radars variants have a high power output of 7kw(the original one has only 4-5kw), and hence a higher range than the 140km given above. The precise range for this version is not known. Whether this radar is inservice with the Indian Air force is also not known. And even if it is with the IAF, how many 7kw N-011M BARS radar equipped Su-30MKI there are is impossible to determine. Hence under these circumstances, only an official brochure can be taken into account. Official brochure, says ZHUK-MSFE with a 8kw power output, has a range of 180km for a 5m2 target. ZHUK-MSFE is the latest Russian radar, while BARS is several years older. Also BARS output is lesser than Zhuk-MSFE. Hence it's safe to assume 4-5kw BARS variant's(or even the 7kw range) range isn't going to be higher than ZHUK-MSFE.
140km detection range for 5m2 target. Hence:
For 8.5m2, BARS detection range is 160km
For 3m2, BARS detection range is 123km
For 1.5m2, BARS detection range is 104km
For 1m2, BARS detection range is 94km
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Official Specs says KLJ-7 onboard JF-17 has a detection range of 105km for a 5m2 target. However, PAF isn't too fond of his radar eventhough it has the same range as a APG-68(V)9 on F-16block52 & RDY-2 on Mirage-2000-5/-9(both radars according to official specs), & less range than RC-400 radar. Even in its most powerful form(meaning the version with the largest antennae, which the JF-17 cannot house due to its relatively small nose), the RC400 has 20% less range than the RDY radar. RC-400 is the radar which the PAF are planning to equip their second block of JF-17. Why they are dumping a better radar(according to official specs) and going for a lesser ranged one is fueling speculation that KLJ-7's true specs is lower than publicized. In any case, lets see what its ranges are:
105km detection range for 5m2 Target. Hence:
For 20m2, KLJ-7 & APG-68(V)9 detection range is 149km
For 15m2, KLJ-7 & APG-68(V)9 detection range is 138km
For 12.5m2, KLJ-7 & APG-68(V)9 detection range is 132km
For 10m2, KLJ-7 & APG-68(V)9 detection range is 125km
For 8.5m2, KLJ-7 & APG-68(V)9 detection range is 120km
For 3m2, KLJ-7 & APG-68(V)9 detection range is 92km
For 1m2, KLJ-7 & APG-68(V)9 detection range is 70km
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RCS figures are confidential. However unofficially there are some figures available on the internet. They are:
Clean(meaning payload/ammunition not loaded) F-16 after Block 30, which includes block 52 - 1.2m2
Clean Mig-29B & Mig-29SMT - 5m2
Clean Su-30MKI - 10m2 to 15m2
JF-17 without RAM, its RCS would be more than a Clean F-16 block 52 which has RAM & is planform. F-16 block25 & the previous variants, which are planform in construction but without RAM, were said to have an RCS of 3m2-5m2, when clean. JF-17's TWR isn't very high, and adding RAM would mean increasing the weight. So we can expect little or no RAM on JF-17. Also, JF-17 isn't very planform in construction but has DSI and is a smaller aircraft. So lets consider a favorable assumption that the RCS of a clean JF-17 is as low as 2.5m2.
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_versions_article6.html
Su-30MKI's RCS when carrying full 8000kgs AG load is said to be 20m2.
Lets take Su-30MKI's clean RCS as 11.5m2, higher than a standard Su-27, due to canards & the extra seat.
Mig-29K's RCS is officially confirmed to be 4-5 times less than a old Mig-29, due to composites & RAM. So taking an average value between 4 & 5 = 4.5. When the unofficial RCS of 5 is divided by 4.5 we get an RCS of 1.11.
"Considerable increase of flight range is also gained due to increased capacity of drop fuel tanks and in-flight refueling capability (with the possibility to refuel from the aircraft of the same type). Due to special coatings Mig-29K radar reflecting surface is 4-5 times smaller than of basic MiG-29."
JF-17 cannot carry larger payloads. Its load carrying capacity is only 7900lbs or less than 3600kgs. This compared to Su-30MKIs 8000kgs, Mig-29k's 5500kgs, & F-16's 7500kgs.
Empty weight of the aircraft is 14520lbs for JF-17, 19700lbs for F-16 Block 52, 25573 for Mig-29SMT, 28550lbs for Mig-29K & 40565lbs for Su-30MKI.
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Eventhough Mig-29 can carry less load than a F-16 or Su-30, lets consider a uniform RCS increase for comparison purposes.
Take the RCS of a Air-Air loaded Mig-29SMT as 8.5m2, 3.5m2 more.
Take the RCS of a Air-Air loaded Mig-29K as 5m2, 3.9m2 more.
Take the RCS of a Air-Air loaded F-16 Block 52 as 5m2, 3.8m2 more.
Take the RCS of a Air-Air loaded JF-17 as 5m2, 2.5m2 more.
Take the RCS of a Air-Air loaded Su-30MKI as 15m2, 3.5m2 more.
With these RCS values and the above radar ranges, you can now see which fighters will be detecting their opponent fighters first... and first tracking which almost linearly follows detection.
Mig-29K will detect:
Su-30MKI at 158km
Mig-29SMT at 137km
F-16 Block 52 at 120km
JF-17 at 120km
F-16 Block 52 will detect:
Su-30MKI at 138km
Mig-29SMT at 120km
JF-17 at 105km
Mig-29K at 105km
Su-30MKI will detect:
Mig-29SMT at 160km
F-16 Block 52 at 140km
JF-17 at 140km
Mig-29K at 140km
Mig-29SMT will detect:
Su-30MKI at 158km
F-16 Block 52 at 120km
JF-17 at 120km
Mig-29K at 120km
JF-17 will detect:
Su-30MKI at 138km
Mig-29SMT at 120km
F-16 Block52 at 105km
Mig-29K at 105km
Mig-29K comes out as the clear winner. If provided with a long range BVR weapon which could match its powerful radar, Mig-29K navalised version will come out as the BVR winner.
Su-30MKI follows the Mig-29K Naval Fulcrum.
Mig-29SMT, F-16 Block-52 & JF-17 are tied at third.
----------------
References:
Zhuk-ME (Mig-29 Upgrade & Mig-29K)
Can Track- 10 Targets
Can Simultaneously Engage - 4 Targets
Max Detection for 5 sqm RCS - 120 km
http://www.roe.ru/cataloque/air_craf...aft_99-102.pdf
N-011 BARS (Su-30MKI)
Can Track- 15 Targets
Can Simultaneously Engage - 4 Targets
Max Detection for 5 sqm RCS - 140 km
PICTURES & DOCS/Overscan's guide to Russian Military Avionics.htm
Kopyo-21I
Can Track- 8 Targets
Can Simultaneously Engage - 2 Targets
Max Detection for 5 sqm RCS - 57 km
http://www.roe.ru/cataloque/air_craf...aft_99-102.pdf
Kopyo-M
Can Track- 10 Targets
Can Simultaneously Engage - 2 Targets
Max Detection for 5 sqm RCS - 80 km
http://www.roe.ru/cataloque/air_craf...aft_99-102.pdf
(Mig-21 Bison has Kopyo radar. Some bisons are equipped with Kopyo-21I and some with Kopyo-M.)
Grifo-S
Can Track- 10 Targets
Can Simultaneously Engage - 2 Targets
Max Detection for 5 sqm RCS - 93 km
KLJ-7
Can Track- 10 Targets
Can Simultaneously Engage - 2 Targets
Max Detection for 5 sqm RCS - 105 km
BARS-29 (Same MKI radar but antennae adapted to Mig-29's smaller nose)
Can Track- 15 Targets
Can Simultaneously Engage - 4 Targets
Max Detection for 5 sqm RCS - 120 km
http://img279.imageshack.us/img279/2...s29back2wp.jpg
http://img279.imageshack.us/img279/8...29front9zl.jpg
Irbis-E (Su-35BM)
Can Track - 30 Targets
Can Simultaneously Engage - 8 Targets
Max Detection for 3 sqm RCS - 400 km
Max Detection for 0.01 sqm RCS - 90 km
Irbis / Irbis-E
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewt...start-180.html
http://www.niip.ru/modules/Downloads...006/2006_5.pdf
APG-77 (F-22A)
Max Track for 1 sqm RCS - 200 km
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewt...start-180.html
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewt...-start-30.html
APG-81 (F-35)
Max Track for 1 sqm RCS - 160 km
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewt...start-180.html
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewt...-start-30.html
Captor-M (EF-2000)
Max Track for 5 sqm RCS - 185 km
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewt...-start-30.html
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewt...start-180.html
Zaslon-M (Mig-31)
Max Detection for 10 ~ 15 sqm RCS - 400 km
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewt...start-180.html
RBE-2 (Rafale)
Can Track - 40 Targets
Can Simultaneously Engage - 4 Targets
Max Track for 3 sqm RCS - 100 km
Max Detection for 3 sqm RCS - 130-140 km
Dassault Rafale Avionics
RDY-2 (mirage 2000-5/-9)
Can Track - 24 Targets
Can Simultaneously Engage - 4 Targets
Max Track for 5 sqm RCS - 80 km
RC-400 (smaller radar based on RDY-2)
Can Track - 24 Targets
Can Simultaneously Engage - 4 Targets
Max Track for 5 sqm RCS - 70 km
APG-68 (V)9 (on F-16 Block 52)
Max Track for 5 sqm RCS - 80 km
APG-66(V)2 (on F-16 MLU)
Max Detection for 6 sqm RCS - 74 km
APG-66 Declassified
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